Kasper Wichmann
Welcome to the Balentic Edge podcast. Today we’re joined by Joseph Lee from C Capital, a global investment platform backing growth stage opportunities across consumer technology and blockchain. They have a strong footprint in Asia and a sharp eye for global trends, and they’re helping shape the next wave of private markets investments from East to West. They manage approximately 900 million US dollars and are backed by reputable global financial institutions and family offices. Joseph Lee is a Managing Director and the head of capital formation and portfolio development at C Capital. He was previously with HarbourVest Partners overseeing fund investments in Greater China. And prior to that, he’s worked at Morgan Stanley, Bank of America, Merrill Lynch and McKinsey. Welcome, Joe.

Joseph Li
Thank you, Kasper. Thanks for having me here today.

Kasper Wichmann
It’s a great pleasure, Joe. And I know our listeners are interested in hearing about Asia, but before we jump into that, maybe tell us a little bit about your own path. What brought you into the world of investor relations? You come from the investment side, the investment banking side, and capital raising. How did you come to join C Capital?

Joseph Li
Thank you.

Yes, yes. So I think you’ve already touched upon. So I really started my career in finance in a very interesting time, i.e. global financial crisis back in 2009. started off as an investment banker in Bank of America and Morgan Stanley for about a decade, covering mostly the clients in Greater China area and a bit of Southeast Asia as well. This is where I started to get in touch with other companies and also private equity folks. With all those backgrounds ahead,

I was hired by Harbour Vest, which is a US-based fund of funds overseeing about $100 billion asset under management. My role there was really to lead private equity fund investments in the Greater China area for more than six years, actually. So during this period, I continued to strengthen my network with GPs and LPs alike. My connection with C Capital, in fact, predates its funding.

In fact, its CEO and the two investment partners are my former colleagues at Bank of America. So we had the trust and we also kept in touch over the past decade, know, over discussing the market trends and also investment strategies. And one thing led to another and joining C Capital was a natural next step. So just a bit of a corrections here added to my role here. At C Capital, my role really focused on the fund formation, a fund strategy and portfolio development.

Really, I’m working alongside our 26-year UBS veteran, now is head of IR, to position C Capital as a top-tier private market manager for global investors, which I can elaborate more later on.

Kasper Wichmann
It’s quite a difference to leave the investment side and go to the higher raising side, but you haven’t so much, I guess, then left the investment side as sort of maybe continuing on that path. Is that correctly understood?

Joseph Li
Yes, I think it is the right understanding. And the reason I like to join C Capital here is really to leverage my past experience in the fund management and the fund investments. So when we do fund investments, I’ve invested over $300 to $400 million across 10 to 12 GPs in Greater China and other part of Asia. So I certainly have knowledge about what to click with LPs, and what LPs are looking for, type of GPs, what specific characteristic of the GPs that will attract what type of LPs. And this is where I come here to play with C Capital. I think C Capital is already a proven manager. on a relative basis, we are still a very young platform. We are only seven years old. So there’s a lot of things to improve on, and a lot of to be professionalized, to be able to be investible by all sorts of investors, both in Asia and Europe and the rest of world. And this is why I come here.

Kasper Wichmann
No, no, no. Fantastic. I guess you also bring the other side of the coin. You’re bringing some insights from world-class GPs from your time at HarbourVest Vest, knowing how they operate, what works, what doesn’t work. So not only what resonates with LPs, but what actually works in practice. I guess you bring a lot of that experience and insights as well, which I guess for a younger firm such as C Capital is invaluable.

Joseph Li 
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely right.

Kasper Wichmann
Fantastic. On that, C Capital, for those who are a little bit less familiar, and I think most of our listeners here in Europe are potentially, can you tell us a little bit about C Capital, give a brief overview of the firm, its origins, and how you’re positioned in Asia, and guess these days more and more globally, right? Because this is not a China firm, this is not an Asia firm, this is a firm that’s going global out of Asia, just as we’ve seen it happening in Europe and the US.

Joseph Li
Yeah, absolutely. C Capital was founded in 2017 as the family office of the Cheng family, which is a major shareholder of New World Group, a leading Asia real estate and hospitality conglomerate. Now, since Fund II we’ve operated quite independently, backed by prominent Asia family offices. And then by Fund III we expanded our investor base to European and the US family and institutional investors.

Throughout the three funds, we have been focusing primarily on APAC growth stage companies in the consumer tech sectors, as you mentioned earlier. I would say our edge really comes from a very powerful network of global strategic partners. Many are our long-term LPs. This combined with the deep sector knowledge and expertise and also a very strong track record, in particular in the exit.

I think we consistently ranked at top quartile in Asia across all three funds we manage. This positions us very well, and particularly in this very volatile market.

Kasper Wichmann
Fantastic. And on Asia for a minute there, because I know this is also something that’s quite a lot of interest / concern to particularly European, Asian LPs. Asia, by and large, is often seen as high growth, but also high volatility. And many, not least today, would actually challenge the investability of the region. From your vantage point at C Capital and your global roles that you’ve had prior, has the perception shifted? How has it shifted? And what are LPs getting right about Asia?

What are they perhaps still missing? Where is the opportunity in Asia for non-Asian LPs today?

Joseph Li
Yeah, no, sure. Happy to. We’ve hear a lot about this investability narrative, right? This is particularly so outside of Asia, right? And I think a lot of investors outside Asia was really scared about, scared off by, for example, the changes in the regulatory environment in China back in 2021, 2022, and then the geopolitics between US and China, right?

led to all those investability narrative or concerns. Just this year, in January, I visited Europe and showed our European investors a very stark valuation gap between Asia and the US markets. For me, I see it as an opportunity, whereas for some investors in Europe, they felt that this is just a state of fact. They think that this will continue to be the case.

left and head back to Hong Kong, boom, the deep seek moment came. And it quickly narrowed those gaps in the public markets. And now as you see the global tariff crisis across the world triggered by the US, we start to see more and more interest in Asia. And also a lot of inquiries from potential LPs with regards to the themes that we are investing in and what are the opportunities laying out in the future.

So I guess from our vantage point, the perception are actually shifting, right? Post this deep-seed moment and the global tariff crisis. I think what investors still underestimate is really the Asia long-term potential here. I’m just throwing out some headline numbers. Asia, even today, still drives over 60 % of global GDP growth, right? It hosts over 450 unicorns in the private markets.

This is three times the total number in the European markets. And as you also know, Asia also leads a lot of AI development and the robotics development. I think what the investor get’s it right is really the volatility. But the volatility also creates valuation arbitrage opportunities for those experienced players in the markets like us.

When I see those valuation gaps, I see this as an opportunity. And then we wait for the right moment, you will see that those valuation gaps are closing up. I think the investors are also right with regards to geopolitics and the risks that it implies in investing in Asia. But I will say that precisely because of geopolitical considerations, I would encourage the investors in Europe and the US to diversify some of your asset allocation to Asia. In order to do that effectively, you should be able to find or you should actually look for a trusted partner in Asia like us to navigate all those uncertainties.

Kasper Wichmann
That makes a lot of sense, Joe. Having operated in Asia myself, I always thought it is a huge high conviction call to say that, look, I’m not investing in Asia, which as you pointed out, is 60 % of global GDP. I think that’s a call certainly I wasn’t comfortable and still am not comfortable making in terms of I’m just not going to invest there. If you’re going to tell investors one thing, what would you tell the LPs that are hesitating today? Would that be, come and talk to us, come and visit?

Go visit not just China, not just Beijing, go visit KL or Singapore or India. What would be the one message that you want to get across to them in terms of an eye-opening?

Joseph Li
Yes, so exactly what you said, you need to come here and really feel the market, right? So we should be able to bring you around to see on some of the portfolio companies or prospective company to see how the companies are operating, right? What type of innovations they are making, right? We really encourage those hesitant investors to come here, talk to us, not just us, talk to our peers, right? And also spend the time understanding the market, right?

really find a time so we can work together and eventually we can partner together to navigate this market, to jointly succeed in the market, in this very dynamic market.

Kasper Wichmann
Fantastic. Drawing a little bit on your experience from Harbour Vest, and I know them quite intimately from having worked with them and across from them a number of times. Does it make sense in your point of view to construct a portfolio within private markets or private equity and not include Asia? Can you do that today? Is that even sensible?

Joseph Li
So this is actually what happened when I saw a lot of investment in Europe. I think the people was telling me that their Asia exposure is probably less than 5%. So which to me is quite amazing because Asia, as I said, even throughout the stats, Asia is accountable for over 50 % of global growth.

And previously with it, OK, Asia is a follower, or maybe it’s a very keen follower toward those technologies. But it’s no longer just a simple follower now. Look at the AI development in China. The gap between DeepSeek and OpenAI is probably just less than three months. So especially in today’s market, as I mentioned earlier, the volatility, the uncertainty on the geopolitical arena becomes even more and more tangible.

It was all this, it’s all the more reason to diversify. And how much is your diversification to Asia is really everybody’s own calculation. But even on the high step, with 5 % in Asia, do you think it’s sensible, right?

Kasper Wichmann
One could argue it’s maybe not even worthwhile if you’re only doing 5 % then you might be better off consolidating and focusing on other regions if you’re just dipping a toe and not jumping in.

Joseph Li
Right, no absolutely, but if look at the markets, China and also many parts of Asia actually is leading the world in a lot of technologies. I’m not just mentioning that people all know about electrical vehicles, autonomous driving, robotics, but even the AI applications, the consumer applications, right? A lot of them are actually leading the world.

Don’t you want to get exposure in this market that could generate a very outsized attractive returns? Just look at the returns of our humble firm. It already indicates that it is a market not to be ignored.

Kasper Wichmann
On the returns, I just want to double click on that a little bit. Should we be expecting a premium from investing in emerging markets as private equity or private markets investors today, or is that a thing in the past? Because that’s what we always heard also when I sat there, hey, I want a bigger risk premium because I’m investing into volatile markets. Is that still a thing today or is that a thing in the past?

Joseph Li
Right, so first of all, think Asia as a whole is not monolith, right? It’s a very diverse market and C capital is not just invested in one particular country, right? Yes, granted, if you invest a lot of technology, a lot of technology is really driven out of China. But if you talk about a lot of consumer tech related companies, you have a lot of options in Asia, both developing markets and developed markets. So in fact, we have our offices in both

in China, investment team in China and also in Australia, covering both emerging and developed markets. They’re actually as a natural hedge They share a lot of commonalities in terms of the technology and the consumer trends, but they also naturally hedge against each other in terms of economic cycles. So it is not an emerging market per say on Asia as a whole. So it’s a natural hedge. So if you ask me whether you want you needed to add it on premium, I think it’s in the market is no longer so. But if you look at our performance, I think our performance even on a premium adjusted basis, it’s still very attractive in the market.

Kasper Wichmann
Fantastic. That echoes, I think, the thinking I had when I was working out there for one of the global firms as well, that Asia is really from New Zealand to Japan and the North and then to India and everything in between, and you need to think about them as bits and pieces.

Joseph Li
That we’re currently evaluating, yes, we are evaluating companies in China, in Japan, in Australia, in Southeast Asia. So although the companies have a very common theme, the theme that we are backing has always been the growth stage companies that are providing cutting-edge technology or transformative consumer products or services. So those are, one company actually worked in certain, regions that will also provide a good indication for particular startups in other markets. So that’s where a regional play give us those advantage.

Another point I also wanted to mention, I mentioned earlier, but I didn’t really dig in deeper, is really our edge. Our investor base, I would describe it as a very powerful alliance on network of strategic partners across the globe. Because of the start of families, in fund I fund II would become more independent. We have a lot of backing from those families, from those corporates, spanning across an entire industry spectrum, from technology, from consumer, from logistics, from industrials. And we’re also branching out not just in Asia, but also in Europe and the US, where all those strategic investors provide us a very powerful network in terms of deal access, thesis validation, as well as deal conversion. So this is where I think there’s the uniqueness for us to getting those deals that we think and we seek high attractiveness at the same time give us the ability to scale those opportunities very quick and very early on.

Kasper Wichmann
That is, I think, quite unique.

I want to jump into the people because every LP will tell you that there’s a 10 year plus type of asset class. And at the end of the day, we invest in people. Tell us a little about the team. What makes you guys special? What makes you click? How do you work with the entrepreneurs, with the owners, with other funds potentially? What makes you guys jump?

Joseph Li
Yeah, no, I take great pride of our team, Our senior investment team is very experienced in their sector of the coverage, and they’re also very loyal. So most of our senior investment team has been with the firm since day one.

That said, the team is also very nimble. As I mentioned, the team is stationed in both China, Hong Kong, and Australia, covering both emerging and developed markets. But we’re actually collaborating very closely because in most of the deals we’re looking at today, you see a very…

very clear convergence between consumer and technology. So most of the deals we’re looking at always have consumer and technology combined. So we are evolving, we in fact involve both teams to look at deals. And not just that, we also involve strategic partner early on to validate the thesis and also boost the deal conversion when in a competitive situation.

This is, think, what makes us a little bit unique in there, this cross-sectoral and cross-functional approach. That actually, on one hand, builds trust with the founders and also the LPs, because they’ll also get more involved instead of passive investors. And on the other hand, that also ensures alignment and also great execution.

Kasper Wichmann
It’s a great additional lens, I suspect, to have somebody second guessing your thesis in the best way possible.

Joseph Li
Yeah, and also as I mentioned, a lot of our investors, families of very prominent corporations in different industries across the world. So some of the companies, in fact a lot of our companies, gotten their approval concept.

throughout those come through our LPs corporations or other networks. So this is where I think make us unique and this is where we are able to scale all those opportunities fast.

Kasper Wichmann
Fantastic. Flipping the coin a little bit here, we talked a little bit about what excites you. What makes you nervous? What keeps you awake at night? You alluded to it. Fundraising is tough, but I think that’s a feature, not a bug, of raising capital. And what about the macroeconomic background? What keeps you up at night?

Joseph Li

Yeah, so I think the macro has always been a concern for most of investors, But I think as I mentioned, whenever this macro conditions and you also see through a different lens which is really the opportunities because we are in the private equity. We’re here for a slightly longer term. We’re not looking for day in day out trading in the public market. So if it’s gold, it will shine eventually. So we’re looking at fundamentally good companies. So if the macro actually has some headwinds, that in fact helps you with your company investments. But of course, the flip side also is that makes your exit a little bit harder, or even longer. So in today’s market, macro is one thing, the other is really geopolitics, and also the tariff. Those are tangibly hitting our businesses and affecting maybe the operating costs, and also makes our listing options tougher or narrower. Which means the exit probably take potentially longer. But on that one, again, our view here is that if it’s a great company, even you are not able to list it, you’re not able to sell entirely, you are able to exit partially, bit by bit in the secondary market, precisely because those companies have good quality.

So that’s why I mentioned that throughout those three funds that we’re managing, we’re constantly generating very strong liquidities. Even the most younger fund, we rank at the top quota in the Asia markets. I this is our concern, but still, I still feel that in Asia, especially China, offers a very strong alternative for companies and investors in today’s market. And our role here is really to guide

Kasper Wichmann
Fantastic.

Joseph Li
Our portfolio through these challenges while leveraging the region’s dynamic growth in the next decade to come.

Kasper Wichmann
Joe, it’s been a pleasure having you with us. Thank you for giving us a look behind the scenes at C Capital and how Asia and private markets out there are evolving. It’s been a really great conversation. For listeners, especially in Stockholm and Copenhagen, one of Joe’s colleagues, he alluded to him, Enrico Mottoli is actually going to be in town on the 5th, 6th and 7th, I believe, May. So for those who’d like to hear it straight from the horse’s mouth and get a little bit more of a personal introduction.

Kasper Wichmann
Do look up C Capital on the Orca platform and do reach out directly to them through that as well or ping us and we’ll connect you. Don’t miss a chance to learn something more and hear it straight from C Capital themselves. Thank you very much for joining this episode of the Balentic Edge podcast.

Joseph Li
Thank you, Kasper